Why there is idol worship in Hinduism ? Why You worship those things which are created by you ?

Discussion in 'Introduction' started by Muslim_boy, Aug 7, 2015.

  1. Muslim_boy

    Muslim_boy New Member

    Why there is idol worship in Hinduism ? You worship those things which are created by you. Why don't you people broke all these idols and embrace Islam.
  2. deafAncient

    deafAncient New Member

    What you don't understand is that these mūrtis you speak of are not simply objects. Rituals are conducted to consecrate the mūrti within the Temple and "introduce" the deity into the mūrti so that it may reside there. Mūrtis are focal points for deities, even though they exist everywhere. Again, it's just a small part of the deity themselves that reside in the mūrti. By the way, we cannot embrace Islam, because that would be taking a step backwards, a huge step backwards. It would be losing a tremendous about of knowledge, losing our ability to live as civilized beings in balance with nature, and taking on a warlike mentality bent on destroying everything and killing people. It is like you asking a high school senior or a student in the 12th standard to go back to the 4th grade or standard. If you have good grades in school and have a comfortable handle on any topic your teachers put you through, why would you want to "revert" to the 4th grade? What is there to learn besides what you had already learned thousands of years ago? It makes no sense to revert like this.

    Face it. You are originally nomads living in a desert, a very hostile environment. Your most important concerns are survival, getting from one oasis to the next, providing food for the family, and when you are able, practice your beliefs. You do not have the energy, resources, and knowledge to go beyond survival and develop a truly functional civilization that respects everyone (women, included) and lives in balance with nature.
  3. Aum

    Aum New Member

    well if god is everywhere why can't it be in idols ? if its not in idols then it can't be god hence proved
    2 people like this.
  4. Yehesqel

    Yehesqel New Member

    My views may be different from most here as I'm not really in the Hindu community but the way I see it is the idols represent god so you would keep them near by when praying not because God lives in the idol but as a reminder of who/what you're paying to. If done like this it's not real idol worship but would be the same as when a Christian wears a cross. Us non Muslims don't embrace Islam because we don't believe what Mohammed taught it has nothing to do with idols.
  5. Senthil

    Senthil Active Member Staff Member

    Only a fool would worship idols. No Hindu worships idols. But the misconception remains out there, especially in anti-Hindu minds. It's a simplistic way to be anti-Hindu, saying silly and false things about us. I'm actually quite surprised anyone here even responded to this boy, He can't be older than 13 or 14.
  6. deafAncient

    deafAncient New Member

    No, but he's a potential Hindu trapped in a Muslim situation. He's obviously young in his development, physically and spiritually.
  7. Senthil

    Senthil Active Member Staff Member

    DA, you're right. But in my experience, these types of forum trolls usually make one long run of insults, and then leave, never to be seen again. Also very difficult to move awareness for them, because its so rigid, and based in fear. till perhaps I shouldn't give up hope so easily. Of course there's hope in future lifetimes as well.
  8. Muslim_boy

    Muslim_boy New Member

    Everyone is quite interested about my age. Well if deities have to introduced in idols cant they introduced in human body ? If a ritual can introduce deity in idol can't it heal a human from suffering? You are confused again a whole deity is present in idol or a part please explain ? If a part then where is whole diety is present ? If a part then where is remaining deity ?

    If god is everywhere why do you need idols? If he is not present everywhere why he is present in idols ?

    Your explanation is silly that's why I am asking silly questions. Do reply correct or send a expert here.
  9. Senthil

    Senthil Active Member Staff Member

    Copper conducts electricity. Electricity can flow through copper. Stones and metal conduct heat. Brahman (Sat-chit-ananda) permeates all things like that. This God-energy is present, and can be made more present in the murthi with ritual. Yes, it is a mystery, but the entire universe, and life itself is a mystery. I'm only engaging you because of DA's words. Just maybe you'll read some of the responses and be able to think deeply about them, and actually learn something about our great religion.

    In essence, we don't actually need murthies. Lots of Hindus don't use them. We don't need bananas either, but they are an efficient potassium source.
  10. Muslim_boy

    Muslim_boy New Member

    Lol :D some called it great religion some called it dharma. You people are already confused o_O
    So according to you God is an energy ? :eek:
    Please define that.

    I mean how can you people just say that. Are you referring any scripture or your baba (not a fraud one ofcourse) or you just writing all according to yourself only.
  11. Senthil

    Senthil Active Member Staff Member

    What is confusing about calling something by two different names. Is it Islam or Moslem? What's the difference. In America we call it an elevator, in Britain they call it a lift. So?

    Energy - look it up in the dictionary.
  12. Muslim_boy

    Muslim_boy New Member

    Islam have only one name Islam.
    Muslim or moslem are different dialect of followers.
    I said that since someone of you said that religion and dharma are different. Is it so ?
    I don't asked for definition of energy just asked how God can be an energy ?
  13. deafAncient

    deafAncient New Member

    It's obvious here that you have much to learn. It is best to learn by putting aside judgments (deciding before hand that you're going to hear what you want to hear without hearing it afresh in a new circumstance).

    Now... The reason for deities or Mūrtis is because they serve as focal points for devotees who are not at a level of development that they can see that their deity or Brahman is everywhere, or for those more advanced, they are reminded by the various hands holding things that symbolize or represent characteristics of a particular deity. It reminds them of those characteristics they believe in and want to emulate. Also, they are reminded by the other characteristics of their bodies, their poses, and the objects around them that have a story about them. It's not like they are just as real materially as a tree or an apple, but it's very real to us in the spiritual world, because there are definitely things that we think about and experience that definitely influence the outcome. I am at a point where I worship mūrtis at temple not because I want them to grant me a boon, or that they have a power over me in the Abrahamic sense, but for two reasons. One is the aforementioned reason of being reminded of the traits of the mūrti and reminding myself to follow them, and two, to set the example that I do believe in the deities' powers and in my connection with them. I have progressed to the point that I see a given deity everywhere. He is in the rocks, the dirt, the sun, moon, etc. Everywhere. Some people are not ready for that yet.

    A whole deity is never entirely present only in the deity. If you read the Bhagavad Gītā (scholars, help me find out where that is in the BG), you will find that only a small portion of the deity is present, and the rest remains in the universe and elsewhere. Pulling a part of a chapter out of the book, "Brahman: Many Forms of the One Formless," we see:

    There are two ways in which Hindus interpret the use and nature of Mūrtis – as an abode of Brahman, or as a symbol of Brahman. Lay Hindus do not necessarily view these two interpretations as necessarily
    exclusive (‘either this or that’) to each other, or they may accord primacy to one of the two due to their own personal preferences or due to their self‐association with a particular tradition of Hindus. Whatever be the interpretation, both of them have the same purpose – of making Brahman more accessible to the lay worshipper.

    1. The Mūrti as a Symbol of Saguṇa Brahman: Once Swami Vivekananda during his itinerary arrived at Alwar. The Dewan of the state kept him in his house as a guest, being impressed by the Swami’s personality, learning and spirituality. He once invited the Maharaja to listen to the discourses of the Swami and benefit from his wisdom.

    The Maharaja said to the Swami, “My forefathers had consecrated an image of Shri Krishna inside the palace. But I do not worship it because I do not have faith in idol worship. Don’t you think that idol worship is harmful?”

    Swamiji thought for a while and then asked some persons to get a picture of the Maharaja to the gathering. Then, he asked people to spit on it. Everyone was aghast. They said to Swamiji, “How can you
    ask us to spit on this picture? It is of the Maharaja whom we all revere and respect.”

    Swamiji smiled and said to the Maharaja, “Did you see how no one wants to spit on this picture? The picture is not the same as you. It is merely a painting of you on a piece of paper. Yet, it symbolizes you and represents you which is why no one wants to spit on it. These same people who have refused to spit on this picture have no problems spitting into the expensive silver and gold spittoons kept in the Dewan’s house. Similarly, the image of Shri Krishna reminds the worshipper of the Lord whom it represents. The worshipper knows that the image is not the same as the Lord, but this image reminds him of the Lord whom he worships in his heart. And when he offers worship to this image, he is offering worship to Shri Krishna that the image represents.”

    The Maharaja learned his lesson about the rationale behind idol worship and promised to Swamiji that he will not henceforth look down upon ‘mūrti poojā’.

    To conclude again, in the words of Mahadevan (pp. 47‐48) –

    “The function of the idol is symbolic. No Hindu, however unlettered he may be, regards
    the idol as exhausting the being of God. To see God everywhere and to practice the
    presence of God always is impossible for the ordinary individual. And so he is asked to
    behold the manifestation of God, wherever there is splendor, beauty and love.
    “Whatever being there is, endowed with grandeur, beauty or strength,’ says Sri Krishna,
    ‘know that it has sprung only from a spark of my splendor (Gita 10.41).’ Temples are
    built on beautiful spots in order that man may be reminded of God, the master‐artist,
    and get into communion with Him.” (pp. 47‐48).

    2. The Mūrti as an Abode of Brahman: For many Hindus however, the mūrti is not just a symbol of the Divine. It is rather the body of God, and divine as such. However, this does not mean that Hindus practice idolatry, which would mean reducing Brahman to the idol. Rather, Hindus believe that Brahman is graciously present in the mūrti, but it is wrong to think that Brahman is present in the mūrti alone. This distinction is explained by Rambachan:

    “The Hindu acceptance of the arcavatara concept has to be understood in the context of
    its prevalent views about the nature of God and His relationship to the world. According
    to Ramanuja, God is the only reality. There is no existence outside or independent of
    God. God, however, contains within Himself the world of individual souls and material
    objects. Within the all‐inclusive God exist unconscious matter and finite spirits.
    Ramanuja uses the analogy of the body and soul for clarifying the relationship between
    the Lord and the universe. Matter and souls are conceived of as constituting the body of
    God. God, as the soul of the entire universe, pervades, controls, guides and uses it as an
    instrument. For the Advaita philosopher Sankara, the entire universe is an inexplicable
    appearance of God who is both its intelligent and material cause. In either view, the
    universe as a whole and all its particular forms are pervaded by God. All forms belong to
    God and each can serve as a medium for appreciating and worshipping Him. The fact
    that the axis of the universe literally runs through everything, grants to all objects the
    potential for revealing God.

    The persistent equation of the arcavatara concept with idolatry ought also to be
    examined in the light of the clear and strong affirmation of divine transcendence in
    Hinduism….in Vaisnava theology, the arca form is only one of the five ways in which the
    Lord is understood to manifest Himself. The Hindu concept of God as both immanent in
    the world and transcendent over it is expressed figuratively in the Vedas in the view that
    God pervades the world by a fourth of his being, while three‐fourths of him remain
    beyond it. The Bhagavadgita similarly affirms that while the entire universe owes its
    being to God, the forms of the universe do not contain or express him fully (9:4‐5). It is
    clearly recognized that no finite process or form can ever finally express the absolute.
    Ultimately, however, we appreciate the limitations of all our concepts and forms of
    4 people like this.
  14. deafAncient

    deafAncient New Member

  15. Muslim_boy

    Muslim_boy New Member

    Baap reo_O too lengthy explanation. So the followers who are lower level at spiritual process used idols. So Muslims do not use idols then they are at highest level of spiritual process. Become a Muslim to be at highest peak.;)

    Some of your forum members called it religion and you are saying dharma.o_O first let you people decide within yourself then tell me what is it.
  16. Senthil

    Senthil Active Member Staff Member

    There is no one correct answer. We are individuals with different viewpoints. Hinduism is vast, like 3 or 4 religions combined. Imagine taking Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, and calling them Abrahamism, and considering Abrahamism to be one religion. Do Jews, Christians and Moslems all agree on everything?
  17. deafAncient

    deafAncient New Member

    Is it difficult for you to read, or that your attention span doesn't let you focus for a sufficient length of time to fully understand OUR position before you can honestly debate on it? What you don't have is patience, and you want things to be right YOUR WAY. How can you say that Islam is a higher form of spirituality when you are unable to read thoroughly to understand our position before debating it.
  18. Prakhar Chauhan

    Prakhar Chauhan New Member

    Hi brother
    I'll tell you an shloka quoted in Shreemad Bhagvat with reference to god........."TASYA NA PRATIMA AASEET"
    Which means that god don't has any physical form hence no idols.....PRATIMA MEANS IDOL
    See in our ancinet texts like vedas,puranas,epics like Shri Ramcharitmanas,Shreemad Bhagvat Geeta no where idols are described or no where idol worship can be read.
    Let me give an example , in Shri Ramcharit Manas there is one scene when Lord Ram was going to pray before crossing ocean to go Sri Lanka.He didn't prayed before any idol but he worshipped Shivaling.
    And in other example when he was going to worship he conducted Havan.

    But in every group,institution some changes come with passage of time.Same is with hinduism.With passage of time some traditions are altered.
    In above stated books you will find that havan,yagya,shivling poojan was way to worship.
    But nowdays you will find many temples where many idols are being worshipped.
    So how and why these changes came????
    And who are these gods whom we are worshipping in idol form???
    Actually whom we say Maa Durga ....Shri Ganesh.....Maa Saraswati .....actually they are part of supereme god( who don't hold any physical form)
    Actually they are powers of supereme god.They are Shakti of supereme god.
    Nowdays many hindus think that maa durga is an particular godess but she is an shakti of supereme god.
    Another thing is God took many incarnations on earth like Lord Ram,Lorn Krishna,Lord Hanuman....and many more
    So they are also worshipped in idol form because they took birth in physical form.

    So according to me idol worship was not part of our culture but as I told changes come with time , and their is nothing wrong in idol worship till an limit due to few reasons :-
    • Creating idols provide job to potter.
    • Somehow it helps to concentrate.
    • Their is no harm in worshipping idols.

    And according to Shreemad Bhagwat everyone is free to do karma in his own style.
    Thanks for reading.
  19. SanatanVedaGyan

    SanatanVedaGyan New Member

  20. SanatanVedaGyan

    SanatanVedaGyan New Member

    Very correct exposition. We always believe, Hinduism is a bunch of religion.
    What is a religion ?
    An idea about the creation, preached by a person (known as Messenger or Mesiha or Avtar), with the help of a book, that is believed to be from/by/about the assumed creator.

    Islam - Mohammed - Quran
    Christianity - Christ - Bible
    Vaishnava - Vedvyasa/Valmiki - Mahabharat/Ramayan
    Shaiva - Bhrugu - Shiva Puran

    So on..

    In Sanskrit, we say these Sampradaya. Hinduism is the name given to all the Sampradayas born in India.

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